Curse

some guy · Jul 24, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

that's all well and good, but Hamstring needs to hit 75% miss chance with dodge, And if the touchy is carrying Life syphon/transfer your phantasm isn't going to deal that much damage.

imagined burden, and conjure nightmares! -8 health degen

RTSFirebat · Jul 24, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

imagined burden, and conjure nightmares! -8 health degen

Thank you! Yes this combo has been the death of my Touch Ranger many a time. I can counter it with Life Sipon and Troll Urgent, but not much I can when I have 2 warriors on me at once

Raxxman · Jul 24, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Well theirs one takehome message here.

Nerf Mesmers!

chumsy · Jul 24, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

2 wars on you and you rather use siphon instead of vamp?

Aisius · Jul 24, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

I can't help but reply to this thread yet again. I'm pleased it's been merged.

Touch rangers can be overpowered if they aren't disabled by using tactics, communication and one or two certain abilities from a profession.

This may seem contrary to what I've said in other posts but while reading this debate on guru forums I've learnt a thing or two about their weaknesses. Thanks to all contibuters

I was able to keep one at bay in RA and AB with just cripple runaway let our mesmer toy with them.

Touchers arn't over powered getting monks in groups is more of a concern for me now:/

Spura · Jul 24, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Here's what should happen:

Vamp touch and Vamp bite changed to spell from skill. More counters, no more ranger touchers because expertise doesn't work on spells. Also making it spell, it would combo nicely with Cultists fervor, making it a necro primary build, and it would be much easier to kill, because necro lacks throw dirt/evades/anti elementalist armor and cultist fervor has sacrifise so scourge sacrifise would work too. It would make for some more interesting builds.

Satai Katalya · Jul 24, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

nicely explained amity.
Personally I take glee in owning touch rangers.... its used so often. I've killed more touchers than being killed by them. Change, adjust, own. I might consider trying it myself because in some cases it can be effective. Its the old rock paper scissors but bigger. If you really cant take having ur butt whooped then dont play.

Gargle Blaster · Jul 24, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Here's what should happen:

Vamp touch and Vamp bite changed to spell from skill. More counters, no more ranger touchers because expertise doesn't work on spells. Also making it spell, it would combo nicely with Cultists fervor, making it a necro primary build, and it would be much easier to kill, because necro lacks throw dirt/evades/anti elementalist armor and cultist fervor has sacrifise so scourge sacrifise would work too. It would make for some more interesting builds.

i dissagree... your suggestion would kill the build. while i think somthing should be done, i would rather see these skills becomming attacks as you get counters(blind, protection spells, ...) and the build lives... guild wars seems to be in need of more diverse builds

cldhearted00 · Jul 24, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

well i play against toucher with intterupt ranger and
if theres only one i usually just let them run up to my face and then distract both skills from point blank range and then kill them with whatever else i have
but with 2 it can be trouble

Raxxman · Jul 24, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

they should be attacks...

BowLad21 · Jul 24, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

If touch rangers ever get nerfed, we will soon see shock rangers!

Curse You · Jul 24, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

Well, well mister know it all. No need to discuss anything then as you've eaten undeniable wisdom with a spoon, eh? If you can't keep the discussion free from trying to personally insult me or totally ignore my arguments by simply stating "you're a touch ranger". *shrugs* That's your personal fault and doesn't help your cause at all.

Well then, I seems I said that you DO play as a touch ranger, when in fact I just said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

First part. You don't seem to have "only" played as a touch ranger just once. From your reaction you seem to play it quite often

That is a simple observation, making a guess based on your reaction. I love how people like to think my posts were so specific.

Anyhow, I do not think the two touches should be spells, I have said this before. It would disable the necros too, as the touches are some of the only good attacks against Spell Breaker, Obsidian Flesh, and Shadow Form.

And at this point, I'm not so much concerned about touch rangers as I am about the way expertise works. What is to stop rangers from abusing other classes touch skills in the future? Do we really want to see something like shock rangers (wouldn't work due to exhaustion though)? That's my issue, not whether or not you can kill a touch ranger.
Expertise says: "For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of your Attack skills, Preparations, and Traps decreases by 4%."
Now I'm not saying that is should work exactly like it says (though it would make sense if it did) but is should instead only work on Ranger skills (rangers ONLY have skills) and attack skills (warrior and assassin attacks).
I DO have a ranger, and I do use them often. I just use all ranger skills. It's possible, its easy. Don't complain that is would destroy rangers.

bam23 · Jul 24, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Touch Rangers are broken.

Seriously.

/signed for Expertise working only on Ranger skills. Just like Divine Favor only works on Monk spells.

Mera Regila · Jul 24, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

that's all well and good, but Hamstring needs to hit 75% miss chance with dodge, And if the touchy is carrying Life syphon/transfer your phantasm isn't going to deal that much damage.

You gotta read the description of dodge/zoujin's haste there buddy. Hamstring hits through Dodge because it only has a chance to evade ARROWS, not sword or other attacks.

A simple warrior counter for Touch Rangers is to have your monks remove blind, and to use wild blow on whirling defense/lightning reflexes. Then, exhausting all available options, touch will run with dodge. Simply use sprint, which lasts longer than the speed stances. When you're caught up to the toucher, Bull's Strike FTW, works on all runners, touchies are no exception ^ ^.

P.S. Touch Rangers DO NOT bring Life Transfer, if they did they would have no energy management. If they brought life tranfer and siphon tranfer would NOT LAST LONG AT ALL. Phantasm would last longer than life transfer, and if you added other hexes it would eat through regen given by those two hexes easily, Conjure Phantasm+Crippling Anguish+Images of Remorse=12 degen at 16 illusion magic. Life Siphon+Life Transfer=10 regen, and it lasts way less than those three hexes.

Touch Rangers are TOO easy to kill. Those touch rangers trying to defend their build are admirable to face down the facts that touch rangers are a bad build. Ultimately, experianced players>>>touch rangers, its that simple.

Hyper Cutter · Jul 24, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

i dissagree... your suggestion would kill the build.

I think that was his point

Edge Martinez · Jul 25, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

Touch Rangers are TOO easy to kill. Those touch rangers trying to defend their build are admirable to face down the facts that touch rangers are a bad build. Ultimately, experianced players>>>touch rangers, its that simple.

Well since someone taught a donkey to fish, I might as well bite. Those of us defending touch rangers? We're defending them in ABs and maybe RAs. All this 'simply' crap you wrote about? Probably more fit for TAs and GvG, where I doubt you'll see many touch rangers. Meaning you may not have a monk, and meaning it may not be in your best interest to chase a player. And experienced players can beat any build... making the complainers here what? And 90% of the complainers here haven't fought noob touch rangers. They've fought experienced players running a toucher and got owned. Noobs couldn't cause this kind of an uproar, but experienced folks impersonating noobs...

P.S. I sincerely doubt a decent toucher will waste his time taking on a monk and a warrior solo in an AB. And if there is more than one? You lose.

D I Z Z O · Jul 25, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

ive never really enjoyed pvp. but here lately ive been so bored i decided to work on some titles and shit so ive been doin ta & ha. but after a few games i could care less about playing anymore. if it isnt touch faggots, its a full team of blood spike necros. if a game cant be balanced id rather have nothing to do with it. if those builds are the cheap & fast way to get fame, of course everyone's going to be using them. whats the use of other classes now. lets all be touchers & blood spikers....
there needs to be a balance. but you cant tell that to a million 12 yr olds.

TadaceAce · Jul 25, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Turning expertise into ranger only skills would be completely stupid. That would not only destroy the toucher, it would destroy R/W and R/A too, both popular builds.

Listen the only viable option would be make touch and bite spells. This kills toucher, but you get this

Cultist Fervor, Dark Aura, Vamp Bite, Vamp Touch, Consume Corpse, 3 others.

I don't know about you guys but the necro primary toucher scares me more than ranger touchers. With 16 blood and 13 death thats about 150 a pop for 8 energy and excellent energy management. This guy would die easier true, but it still does A LOT more damage.

samifly · Jul 25, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

God forbid rangers would be able to use their secondaries effectively. Troll Unguent isnt a Trap/Attack/Prep/Nature Ritual either...

Curse You · Jul 25, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

(snip)Turning expertise into ranger only skills would be completely stupid. That would not only destroy the toucher, it would destroy R/W and R/A too, both popular builds.

Listen the only viable option would be make touch and bite spells. This kills toucher, but you get this (snip..)

You people refuse to read EXACTLY what I am saying. I suggested (and still do) that Expertise only effect RANGER SKILLS AND ATTACK SKILLS (i.e. warrior and assassin attacks).

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

God forbid rangers would be able to use their secondaries effectively. Troll Unguent isnt a Trap/Attack/Prep/Nature Ritual either...

Did I say that only Trap/Attack/Prep/Nature Ritual are affected? No, I don't think I did. If I remeber correctly, ALL ranger skills get reduced.

Seriously, read what I say, don't just flip through my type, you miss the important parts.